My journey through outsider thought from reading Allen Ginsberg as a child in fifth grade to interviewing Noa Tishby as a journalist reporting on antisemitism today.
You know what's funny. The Iraq War era was a defining time for both of us politically. We were both in college it seems. At the time before the Iraq War you were liberal. In the early 2000s I was conservative. On a side note I also liked Sowell back then much more than now(I still do like some of his points of view.)
Anyway. My reasoning for being against the Iraq War was and I believe I was right(you may disagree.) Was that US hegemony was good. US hegemony created a more peaceful world. That the only way this could be interrupted was the US spending too much political capital on a stupid war and alienating their allies and citizens. This was informed by this is happening during Vietnam. That war was widely seen as an example of military over-reach and broke the trust in US institutions for a long time. To some degree the effects are still felt.
My reasoning was that Iraq wasn't a threat to the US, there was a high likelihood of Iran benefiting from regional instability and it would force the US to get involved with illiberal middle eastern regimes and bog the US down indefinitely. That the US should save its political capital for intervening in a more serious infraction like say Russia invading another country or a civil war in Syria that might create a refugee crisis.
Anyway I was looking for worldviews and reasoning that fit my newfound ideological curiosity since in my eyes the American right was going off the rails. I came to Chomsky. Oh boy I always disliked him and his foreign policy opinions. He was an America hater. I love my country and my criticism has always been from that perspective. Chomsky held water for illiberal regimes constantly, making excuses for them while coming to the more uncharitable conclusions regarding the US. This man blames the US now for the invasion of Ukraine and has in the past made the blunder of supporting Pol Pot. The Pol Pot part was known in 2003 and was a huge reason I was very critical of his writing from the start.
Through Iraq War protests I found out about all sorts of fringe conspiracies, even early anti-vaxx stuff, but also 9/11 conspiracies. For years I felt like I was on a political island with my views. The Right being gung-ho about war and the left being riddled with populist nonsense, fringe academic theories and conspiracies. Of course things have changed since the days of George W. Bush and the American right has found new profound ways to alienate me, that are different than before. Meanwhile Liberals have to constantly hold back the "Looney Left" themselves.
It took me a while to realize I was a milquetoast moderate liberal, with honestly very boring views and that there were many, many people like me. It's just that often divergent opinions get a lot of airtime and take up a lot of space.
I would be curious how you deal with the cognitive dissonance of appreciating his artistic contributions while knowing he was a proud member of an entirely loathsome organization. I won't call him a pedophile because I can't know if that was acted upon but he certainly condoned pedophilia. I don't know if you read my post confessing I was a fan of his and got his autograph when I had the chance. That was 30 yrs ago before the internet so i didn't know any of these other things until many years later. I might not have waited in that long line... On the other hand I still listen to Michael Jackson while firmly believing he was an actual pedophile. That old thing about separating art from artist. But I don't revere and celebrate MJ as a person... I just listen to his music. If you'd rather not have all this as part of the post...please delete my comments... I won't be offended. 🙏
I don't condone Ginsberg and I don't agree with him or his general approach. However he was an advocate for "Free Speech" an actual "Free Speech Absolutist" he also did things for the sole purpose of getting attention and making people mad. Like I said I don't agree with any of that, but that's who he was.
Also there is an often not spoken about tend from the 1970s mainly in Europe that kind of softened and downplayed the damages caused by NAMBLA-type stuff. Back then just overall people tended to have more lax rules about older men and underage girls in "relationships" as well. We know better now and this is far from acceptable and the age of consent has gone up/there is more social taboo regarding this type of thing.
In the 1970s in and the US Europe you had all sorts of otherwise rational people jumping with pretty intensely horrible views regarding this subject.
To get a window into the thinking in Germany post war here is an example. Warring it's pretty horrible.
Is it not clear enough from the other selections on the list that I'm capable of learning form and drawing from people who have some seriously evil views and/or may have done some evil things?
And besides - Ginsberg made the influence on me when I was 10 years old and up through I was an undergrad. The point of the list is talking about the counterculture people who influenced my approach, not proclaiming a list of idols to worship as perfect people.
Extraordinary and informative post. I'd be more interested in what your own perspective is now after such exposition to so many other's you have lived vicariously through, throughout your journey.
Is it really your perspective now or is it what you're agreeing with? Currently, speaking, of course.
Incredible, wishing I had that much time and my parents' resources to spend on anything I wanted and whatever paths I was interested in taking. But you and I probably had completely different environments to adapt to. Although us "Rockers" are similar to the "Alternative Lifestyle" your generation has embraced.
Unfortunately for the ancient money-changers and cult of illuminati, the debt enslavement masters will soon beget their rightful places, within the dust bins of history. Because those organizations are simply impotent without the illusion of a fiat currency system.
Equilibrium will prevail as we further our investigations into the occult. 🙏 for the referenced links to your library of the damned. 😉
You know what's funny. The Iraq War era was a defining time for both of us politically. We were both in college it seems. At the time before the Iraq War you were liberal. In the early 2000s I was conservative. On a side note I also liked Sowell back then much more than now(I still do like some of his points of view.)
Anyway. My reasoning for being against the Iraq War was and I believe I was right(you may disagree.) Was that US hegemony was good. US hegemony created a more peaceful world. That the only way this could be interrupted was the US spending too much political capital on a stupid war and alienating their allies and citizens. This was informed by this is happening during Vietnam. That war was widely seen as an example of military over-reach and broke the trust in US institutions for a long time. To some degree the effects are still felt.
My reasoning was that Iraq wasn't a threat to the US, there was a high likelihood of Iran benefiting from regional instability and it would force the US to get involved with illiberal middle eastern regimes and bog the US down indefinitely. That the US should save its political capital for intervening in a more serious infraction like say Russia invading another country or a civil war in Syria that might create a refugee crisis.
Anyway I was looking for worldviews and reasoning that fit my newfound ideological curiosity since in my eyes the American right was going off the rails. I came to Chomsky. Oh boy I always disliked him and his foreign policy opinions. He was an America hater. I love my country and my criticism has always been from that perspective. Chomsky held water for illiberal regimes constantly, making excuses for them while coming to the more uncharitable conclusions regarding the US. This man blames the US now for the invasion of Ukraine and has in the past made the blunder of supporting Pol Pot. The Pol Pot part was known in 2003 and was a huge reason I was very critical of his writing from the start.
Through Iraq War protests I found out about all sorts of fringe conspiracies, even early anti-vaxx stuff, but also 9/11 conspiracies. For years I felt like I was on a political island with my views. The Right being gung-ho about war and the left being riddled with populist nonsense, fringe academic theories and conspiracies. Of course things have changed since the days of George W. Bush and the American right has found new profound ways to alienate me, that are different than before. Meanwhile Liberals have to constantly hold back the "Looney Left" themselves.
It took me a while to realize I was a milquetoast moderate liberal, with honestly very boring views and that there were many, many people like me. It's just that often divergent opinions get a lot of airtime and take up a lot of space.
Allan Ginsberg, Jersey Boy. Paterson. Greatness is in the water we drink.
I am well aware.
I would be curious how you deal with the cognitive dissonance of appreciating his artistic contributions while knowing he was a proud member of an entirely loathsome organization. I won't call him a pedophile because I can't know if that was acted upon but he certainly condoned pedophilia. I don't know if you read my post confessing I was a fan of his and got his autograph when I had the chance. That was 30 yrs ago before the internet so i didn't know any of these other things until many years later. I might not have waited in that long line... On the other hand I still listen to Michael Jackson while firmly believing he was an actual pedophile. That old thing about separating art from artist. But I don't revere and celebrate MJ as a person... I just listen to his music. If you'd rather not have all this as part of the post...please delete my comments... I won't be offended. 🙏
I don't condone Ginsberg and I don't agree with him or his general approach. However he was an advocate for "Free Speech" an actual "Free Speech Absolutist" he also did things for the sole purpose of getting attention and making people mad. Like I said I don't agree with any of that, but that's who he was.
Also there is an often not spoken about tend from the 1970s mainly in Europe that kind of softened and downplayed the damages caused by NAMBLA-type stuff. Back then just overall people tended to have more lax rules about older men and underage girls in "relationships" as well. We know better now and this is far from acceptable and the age of consent has gone up/there is more social taboo regarding this type of thing.
In the 1970s in and the US Europe you had all sorts of otherwise rational people jumping with pretty intensely horrible views regarding this subject.
To get a window into the thinking in Germany post war here is an example. Warring it's pretty horrible.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Kentler
Is it not clear enough from the other selections on the list that I'm capable of learning form and drawing from people who have some seriously evil views and/or may have done some evil things?
And besides - Ginsberg made the influence on me when I was 10 years old and up through I was an undergrad. The point of the list is talking about the counterculture people who influenced my approach, not proclaiming a list of idols to worship as perfect people.
Not the congenial response i was hoping for... Sorry to intrude. I'll delete my clearly unwelcome comments. Cheers.
I'm sorry, my response was intended in a congenial way. It is entirely reasonable and welcome of you to bring up the flaws of people on the list.
This was actually meant as a playful provocation of Marc F Esquire for promoting NJ and its native sons yet again. Lol. But he didn't bite.
Morrison and Gaiman are at the peak of comic book writing for me.
Extraordinary and informative post. I'd be more interested in what your own perspective is now after such exposition to so many other's you have lived vicariously through, throughout your journey.
Is it really your perspective now or is it what you're agreeing with? Currently, speaking, of course.
Thank you for your interest. Here are a number of posts with my own perspective. I would be curious for your take on any of them:
https://www.godofthedesert.org/p/piizaps-the-7-primary-publishing
https://www.godofthedesert.org/p/the-90-installments-in-my-3-essay
https://ghostsofthedesert.substack.com/p/what-we-can-learn-from-the-most-powerful
https://www.godofthedesert.org/p/announcing-god-of-the-deserts-5-imprints
https://www.godofthedesert.org/p/the-illuminati-origins-goals-accomplishments
https://www.godofthedesert.org/p/a-map-to-understand-the-muslim-brotherhoods
https://www.godofthedesert.org/p/who-stormy-daniels-and-donald-trump
https://www.godofthedesert.org/p/is-it-wise-to-attempt-a-deal-with
https://www.godofthedesert.org/p/who-reagan-republicans-and-serious
https://www.godofthedesert.org/p/when-and-why-i-decided-against-attending
https://www.godofthedesert.org/p/an-anarchist-imperialist-argument
Incredible, wishing I had that much time and my parents' resources to spend on anything I wanted and whatever paths I was interested in taking. But you and I probably had completely different environments to adapt to. Although us "Rockers" are similar to the "Alternative Lifestyle" your generation has embraced.
Unfortunately for the ancient money-changers and cult of illuminati, the debt enslavement masters will soon beget their rightful places, within the dust bins of history. Because those organizations are simply impotent without the illusion of a fiat currency system.
Equilibrium will prevail as we further our investigations into the occult. 🙏 for the referenced links to your library of the damned. 😉
I am a member of the Illuminati. Join us. https://www.godofthedesert.org/p/the-illuminati-origins-goals-accomplishments
Surely your joking, Mr. Feynman?
A great book. A great man. I love when ppl get my references so i share when i get theirs... Although a typo of your vs you're 😉
Tom Robbins?
Sorry about typo. Had to respond. Love Feynman. AI brain implant failed me again....zgain....egain.