America seems to always start coming apart at the seams when there is no outside threat to the US. Post cold-war people started slowly seeing the real threat being within, then 9/11 happened as briefly people were united. Then when that threat started to dissipate people started going after each other again.
There is obviously not going to be a Civil War over anything like trans bathroom bills. California is not going to leave the union over the second amendment. Texas seems more serious, but ultimately Texas doesn't have enough people who would actually want to do this. This is especially true because Texas is more of a "lean-right" state consisting of a whole bunch of people who were not originally from Texas.
It's not a Civil War or succession or even dissolution of the US I am worried about, it's the erosion of liberal democracy and the erosion of US institutions both in ability to function and in how much people trust them. Both of those things could and would lead to the US A.) Being less functional, and B.) Less powerful and C.) Probably not a hegemony anymore. The final point leading to a more unstable world that is more likely to devolve into a World War.
None of this is inevitable, it's just a possibility. It's the populists(both left and right) and reactionaries that seem to be pushing for this outcome which to me is against everyone's own interest.
I will add this. I think social media/the internet has given rise to a lot of this BS. By most metrics life in the US is pretty good and the US has performed well compared to its peer nations in the last few decades. You wouldn't know this if you based your opinion of the US by looking online. It's endless complaining. This might just be a cultural tendency laid bare by the fact everyone has a voice on social media.
The book "Why Nations Fail" I think did a pretty good job highlighting why certain societies succeed and others fail. I think about that book because a lot of things that previously had helped America succeed seem to be under threat. The caveat to this is that they have been under threat before. America is a relatively chaotic country. So far so good. Hopefully the winning streak continues despite the rage and doubters.
Impossible. The US has not the reserves of youth and energy for civil conflict. If Trump wins the election I can imagine many scenarios of authoritarianism and civil unrest, but the country will not divide.
OK. Well the threat of secession was the main subject of this piece. So if you agree with me that it's not likely then it sounds like we're on the same page.
Oh sure. Mainly I was trying to spread my vision of this election as a Trial on the previous one. I find incredible how light words have come when non concession in 2020 (either if you think right or wrong) is not the main issue in 2024.
Careful you sound like a preserve the union Republican David. You will at least be accused of it for wanting to preserve the union as the sessionists were democrats who are currently obsessed with forcing women to not have safe spaces for women. There's so much more to the issue like dominance like these guys who you have been trained to spot as dark web pee stream camera placing dudes who do not look like Blair White and definitely not sure if they really need a urinal or missed the ladies room so much that now when they're bigger and scarier want to force us to just say ok. Like it's diminishing women and our power in general. You don't understand you are a woman and do not have the perspective of how that issue falls upwards several ways. Why can't those guys go to the men's room they've always gone too. You guys kick them out? I enjoyed your perspective and agree with you on other stuff just not the bathroom issue. So much more to it than a bathroom. I've always been curious of the partnership with the trans for Palestinians thing it's like that's not the side that will ever let you live in peace. I'm just wanting to feel safe when I'm most vulnerable like going to the bathroom.
No I've always been a public restroom if I can't wait type. This is nothing new. I'm more worried about why you guys kicked them out of the men's room. I was afraid of germs and creeps in the bathroom my whole life like we women are taught to be and not let each other get violated in that very female space when we're at our most vulnerable and being forced to convert or be canceled or dare say get called unreasonable by a man when it's not the " popular opinion " why don't these guys feel comfy in the men's room what did you guys do to them. We don't have urinals. Why would anyone sit on a public toilet seat even with precautions. Probably are worse about getting pee everywhere or does that suddenly change with putting the seat up and down. It's such a mind fuck for women. Would you argue this with curly boy chuck from you tube please. I wish women had more true allies and the women supporting it to look at it from a dominance hierarchy perspective. It's interesting.
Nice attempt at a gotcha. Why does someone that still has a penis want to pee in the women's room in the first place? Why can't they go in the men's room? Why are men at the forefront of telling women you must accept that we kicked them out of the bathroom they were used to using and they're using yours? Why don't they feel comfortable in the men's room?
Because they look like a woman! It would be more disruptive, embarrassing and awkward for a trans person in a dress to go into a men’s bathroom than it is for them to just go into a woman’s bathroom.
A trans person who looks like a woman who goes into a bathroom to urinate is not going to attract any attention. Nobody would know they have a penis.
This whole discussion comes off as deeply silly and a huge waste of time to those of us who are more focused on real, serious issues like the boom in antisemitism since 2019 and the war going on in Gaza.
Worrying about if someone with a penis pees in a toilet in a women’s bathroom just comes off as deeply weird. You really don’t have more important subjects to be concerned about?
We think they look like men. They came from your bathroom and you kicked them out and are forcing them to go to ours and what we should expect from a bunch of men. Lol 😆
America seems to always start coming apart at the seams when there is no outside threat to the US. Post cold-war people started slowly seeing the real threat being within, then 9/11 happened as briefly people were united. Then when that threat started to dissipate people started going after each other again.
There is obviously not going to be a Civil War over anything like trans bathroom bills. California is not going to leave the union over the second amendment. Texas seems more serious, but ultimately Texas doesn't have enough people who would actually want to do this. This is especially true because Texas is more of a "lean-right" state consisting of a whole bunch of people who were not originally from Texas.
It's not a Civil War or succession or even dissolution of the US I am worried about, it's the erosion of liberal democracy and the erosion of US institutions both in ability to function and in how much people trust them. Both of those things could and would lead to the US A.) Being less functional, and B.) Less powerful and C.) Probably not a hegemony anymore. The final point leading to a more unstable world that is more likely to devolve into a World War.
None of this is inevitable, it's just a possibility. It's the populists(both left and right) and reactionaries that seem to be pushing for this outcome which to me is against everyone's own interest.
I will add this. I think social media/the internet has given rise to a lot of this BS. By most metrics life in the US is pretty good and the US has performed well compared to its peer nations in the last few decades. You wouldn't know this if you based your opinion of the US by looking online. It's endless complaining. This might just be a cultural tendency laid bare by the fact everyone has a voice on social media.
The book "Why Nations Fail" I think did a pretty good job highlighting why certain societies succeed and others fail. I think about that book because a lot of things that previously had helped America succeed seem to be under threat. The caveat to this is that they have been under threat before. America is a relatively chaotic country. So far so good. Hopefully the winning streak continues despite the rage and doubters.
The situation is serious in my view. There will be a non conceding ex-candidate in the ballot:
https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/ekM9jQqXq8D8qa2fP/united-states-2024-presidential-election-so-help-you-god
So how do you see a potential division in the country going down based on Trump?
Impossible. The US has not the reserves of youth and energy for civil conflict. If Trump wins the election I can imagine many scenarios of authoritarianism and civil unrest, but the country will not divide.
OK. Well the threat of secession was the main subject of this piece. So if you agree with me that it's not likely then it sounds like we're on the same page.
Oh sure. Mainly I was trying to spread my vision of this election as a Trial on the previous one. I find incredible how light words have come when non concession in 2020 (either if you think right or wrong) is not the main issue in 2024.
https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/almost-third-americans-still-believe-2020-election-result-was-fraudule-rcna90145
So, if all people votes in the basis of the only legitimate issue, Biden wins with a 60 per cent. Interesting
Careful you sound like a preserve the union Republican David. You will at least be accused of it for wanting to preserve the union as the sessionists were democrats who are currently obsessed with forcing women to not have safe spaces for women. There's so much more to the issue like dominance like these guys who you have been trained to spot as dark web pee stream camera placing dudes who do not look like Blair White and definitely not sure if they really need a urinal or missed the ladies room so much that now when they're bigger and scarier want to force us to just say ok. Like it's diminishing women and our power in general. You don't understand you are a woman and do not have the perspective of how that issue falls upwards several ways. Why can't those guys go to the men's room they've always gone too. You guys kick them out? I enjoyed your perspective and agree with you on other stuff just not the bathroom issue. So much more to it than a bathroom. I've always been curious of the partnership with the trans for Palestinians thing it's like that's not the side that will ever let you live in peace. I'm just wanting to feel safe when I'm most vulnerable like going to the bathroom.
I am sorry that you are now so afraid of using public restrooms.
No I've always been a public restroom if I can't wait type. This is nothing new. I'm more worried about why you guys kicked them out of the men's room. I was afraid of germs and creeps in the bathroom my whole life like we women are taught to be and not let each other get violated in that very female space when we're at our most vulnerable and being forced to convert or be canceled or dare say get called unreasonable by a man when it's not the " popular opinion " why don't these guys feel comfy in the men's room what did you guys do to them. We don't have urinals. Why would anyone sit on a public toilet seat even with precautions. Probably are worse about getting pee everywhere or does that suddenly change with putting the seat up and down. It's such a mind fuck for women. Would you argue this with curly boy chuck from you tube please. I wish women had more true allies and the women supporting it to look at it from a dominance hierarchy perspective. It's interesting.
What on earth are you talking about? Are you suggesting you're afraid of being raped by a trans woman in the bathroom?
Nice attempt at a gotcha. Why does someone that still has a penis want to pee in the women's room in the first place? Why can't they go in the men's room? Why are men at the forefront of telling women you must accept that we kicked them out of the bathroom they were used to using and they're using yours? Why don't they feel comfortable in the men's room?
Because they look like a woman! It would be more disruptive, embarrassing and awkward for a trans person in a dress to go into a men’s bathroom than it is for them to just go into a woman’s bathroom.
A trans person who looks like a woman who goes into a bathroom to urinate is not going to attract any attention. Nobody would know they have a penis.
This whole discussion comes off as deeply silly and a huge waste of time to those of us who are more focused on real, serious issues like the boom in antisemitism since 2019 and the war going on in Gaza.
Worrying about if someone with a penis pees in a toilet in a women’s bathroom just comes off as deeply weird. You really don’t have more important subjects to be concerned about?
We think they look like men. They came from your bathroom and you kicked them out and are forcing them to go to ours and what we should expect from a bunch of men. Lol 😆