Although I don't really care that much about this and it's probably in the scheme of things not a huge deal. I do think it's worth considering that "Redskin" has in the past been a pejorative remark, and while many Native Americans are not offended by it, many are.
And there were petitions to change the name all the way back to 1968, which was soon after the franchise began. Granted it's the owner of the franchise and the NFL's decision ultimately and there are certainly more pressing issues regarding Native Americans, particularly the poverty and terrible conditions on many reservations. However I do think it's worth considering what the majority of Native Americans think with regards to the team name.
Hi Kenny--I covered this as well in my original post on this topic, which is a link above. The name has not been without controversy for sure. But always trying to reduce "controversy" should never be the goal, in my book. Leads to a rather boring and bland society.
From what I've seen with polls of Native Americans, most don't care. It's just the small amount of politicized leftist Natives and white leftists who care about this.
I mean it would be a stretch to say I care, it might even be a stretch to say most Native Americans care. But recent polling has been consistent that Native Americans, particularly Native Americans that live within a tribal community and practice a traditional way of life do consider the Redskin offensive, at least mildly so when used by non-Native Americans.
There are also a lot of holes in the pro-Redskin name side of things. For one they cite a singular flawed poll. Secondly they cite three predominantly native American schools with "Redskin" as the school mascot. For one that one singular poll doesn't match up with many other higher quality polls and two taken before or since. Also the term Redskin is a pejorative when used by non-Native Americans. The term to my understanding was initially created by Native Americans to describe themselves and then in the 1800s and through to the early 1900s used by non-natives as an insulting term, before going mostly out of use.
I mean I hardly think anyone puts this on their list of "most important issues." I am pretty sure there are hundreds of more pressing issues for Native Americans but it's still on my estimation worth considering that a name change is appropriate.
Commanders is kind of generic for the record. It's D.C. call them the "Senators" or something, if not the Redskins. I kind of like the humor in "Football Team."
I do think it's important in that it reflects a big problem with our "cancel culture." It doesn't matter what the fans think or that most Native Americans don't mind or even like the name. It's what our cultural elites think that counts. My money is not on them returning to the Redskins, BTW.
Also to add to your point. The actual team name change did not happen due to activists or protesters pressuring the Redskin organization it was actually Nike and FedEx pulling out of a partnership with the team that led to the owner changing his mind about the name change.
It's a business decision. If they are going to change the name back it's not polls or what Native Americans think about it, it will be wether or not corporate partners explicitly tied to the organizations profitablity that will decide.
The debate will continue indefinitely I suppose.
Does the Redskins have more or less fans rebranded as the "Commanders" does it make more money as the "Commanders"? That's the bottom line it seems.
I would agree with you if this was entirely a question of "cultural elites" deciding on this, but the best and most recent data we have polling actual Native Americans most of whom are not "cultural elites" indicates at least some dislike of the name.
The team had previously spend a lot of time and money justifying the name. There are plenty of Native Americans that are not offended by the name, there just seem to be a clear majority that are and that should be taken into account.
I really don't find the results of this poll all that compelling, just as I haven't with any other poll on this. If one poll of 1000 Native Americans only shows that 57% of those self-identifying as Native are offended then this is a total non-issue. If it was like 95% and there were multiple polls showing that over time and there was consensus that "Redskins" was comparable to universally offensive ethnic slurs then this would be obvious, but given the high level of ambiguity even among Natives then this doesn't seem like something that should be so clear.
I think the more compelling element is that there is a much higher rate for Native Americans living "traditional lifestyles" and living on reservations. Amongst self-identified native Americans you have a lot of people who falsely think they are part Native Americans or who are only a small percentage and don't have much connection to their tribe. Elizabeth Warren is a dime a dozen, especially in places like Oklahoma(where she grew up) and Texas. Many people falsely claim Native Americans ancestry. This makes it particularly difficult to actually tackle issues related to Native Americans. Who counts? One way of looking at it is that people who live on reservations and who practice traditional Native American lifestyles are unambiguously Native American.
What really gets lost in all of this though and even in how I am speaking about it is that really all of these opinions might be drastically different based on the tribe. As many have pointed out Redskin is used regularly by Native Americans in some geographic areas.
So yeah this is much more complex issue than maybe it seems at first. But what I want to convey is that there are two sides to this issue. Also that it very well could be categorized as "Virtue Signaling" but to a certain segment of the Native population they do seem to care.
This is apparently important enough for you to make two comments arguing about it. ;-)
I haven't seen any polls that suggest a significant number of Native Americans really care. It's something that mostly white liberals care about more since it's such a trivial symbolic issue which is easy to "debate" and "virtue signal" (not a term I like but one I think applies here) about instead of doing something more meaningful to benefit people's lives.
Yeah. So my reasoning for commenting is A.) This is the point of writing something, engagement and I decided to engage in part to bolster dialogue and participation. B.) I wanted to present a different POV rather than an all out criticism of the point. I just think the alternative POV should be established with evidence. Which from reading about this issue I have concluded that there is merit to a name change.
Something I should add is that the fans of the Redskins might actually care about this name change thing more than anyone judging by the backlash to the name change.
I do find it kind of depressing that the only thing that really seems to have come out of the 2020 protests were superficial corporate gestures.
Currently there are many more important issues regarding Native Americans.
The most pressing being that many Native Americans live on reservations with some of the worst poverty and social problems in the US. Their ancestors did not go to these reservations by choice and often times they are stuck in areas with no infrastructure or natural resources often times far from their ancestral homeland.
To me it seems that there should be a taskforce that works with Native American leaders to produce a plan to rectify this situation and the federal government should take action to improve lives.
It's not that small gestures are not important, but if small gestures are the ONLY thing happening ever, it's kind of insulting and virtue signal stuff.
Judging by the reactionary backlash from some of the general public to some of these name changes I don't know if they help people become more sympathetic to the plight of Native Americans, it might make things worse in a small way.
They didn’t or don’t need to change the “Redskin” name. Just need to change their logo to a potato. Problem solved
Although I don't really care that much about this and it's probably in the scheme of things not a huge deal. I do think it's worth considering that "Redskin" has in the past been a pejorative remark, and while many Native Americans are not offended by it, many are.
https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/02/04/native-mascots-survey
And there were petitions to change the name all the way back to 1968, which was soon after the franchise began. Granted it's the owner of the franchise and the NFL's decision ultimately and there are certainly more pressing issues regarding Native Americans, particularly the poverty and terrible conditions on many reservations. However I do think it's worth considering what the majority of Native Americans think with regards to the team name.
Hi Kenny--I covered this as well in my original post on this topic, which is a link above. The name has not been without controversy for sure. But always trying to reduce "controversy" should never be the goal, in my book. Leads to a rather boring and bland society.
From what I've seen with polls of Native Americans, most don't care. It's just the small amount of politicized leftist Natives and white leftists who care about this.
I mean it would be a stretch to say I care, it might even be a stretch to say most Native Americans care. But recent polling has been consistent that Native Americans, particularly Native Americans that live within a tribal community and practice a traditional way of life do consider the Redskin offensive, at least mildly so when used by non-Native Americans.
There are also a lot of holes in the pro-Redskin name side of things. For one they cite a singular flawed poll. Secondly they cite three predominantly native American schools with "Redskin" as the school mascot. For one that one singular poll doesn't match up with many other higher quality polls and two taken before or since. Also the term Redskin is a pejorative when used by non-Native Americans. The term to my understanding was initially created by Native Americans to describe themselves and then in the 1800s and through to the early 1900s used by non-natives as an insulting term, before going mostly out of use.
I mean I hardly think anyone puts this on their list of "most important issues." I am pretty sure there are hundreds of more pressing issues for Native Americans but it's still on my estimation worth considering that a name change is appropriate.
Commanders is kind of generic for the record. It's D.C. call them the "Senators" or something, if not the Redskins. I kind of like the humor in "Football Team."
I do think it's important in that it reflects a big problem with our "cancel culture." It doesn't matter what the fans think or that most Native Americans don't mind or even like the name. It's what our cultural elites think that counts. My money is not on them returning to the Redskins, BTW.
Also to add to your point. The actual team name change did not happen due to activists or protesters pressuring the Redskin organization it was actually Nike and FedEx pulling out of a partnership with the team that led to the owner changing his mind about the name change.
It's a business decision. If they are going to change the name back it's not polls or what Native Americans think about it, it will be wether or not corporate partners explicitly tied to the organizations profitablity that will decide.
The debate will continue indefinitely I suppose.
Does the Redskins have more or less fans rebranded as the "Commanders" does it make more money as the "Commanders"? That's the bottom line it seems.
I would agree with you if this was entirely a question of "cultural elites" deciding on this, but the best and most recent data we have polling actual Native Americans most of whom are not "cultural elites" indicates at least some dislike of the name.
https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/02/04/native-mascots-survey
The team had previously spend a lot of time and money justifying the name. There are plenty of Native Americans that are not offended by the name, there just seem to be a clear majority that are and that should be taken into account.
I really don't find the results of this poll all that compelling, just as I haven't with any other poll on this. If one poll of 1000 Native Americans only shows that 57% of those self-identifying as Native are offended then this is a total non-issue. If it was like 95% and there were multiple polls showing that over time and there was consensus that "Redskins" was comparable to universally offensive ethnic slurs then this would be obvious, but given the high level of ambiguity even among Natives then this doesn't seem like something that should be so clear.
I think the more compelling element is that there is a much higher rate for Native Americans living "traditional lifestyles" and living on reservations. Amongst self-identified native Americans you have a lot of people who falsely think they are part Native Americans or who are only a small percentage and don't have much connection to their tribe. Elizabeth Warren is a dime a dozen, especially in places like Oklahoma(where she grew up) and Texas. Many people falsely claim Native Americans ancestry. This makes it particularly difficult to actually tackle issues related to Native Americans. Who counts? One way of looking at it is that people who live on reservations and who practice traditional Native American lifestyles are unambiguously Native American.
What really gets lost in all of this though and even in how I am speaking about it is that really all of these opinions might be drastically different based on the tribe. As many have pointed out Redskin is used regularly by Native Americans in some geographic areas.
So yeah this is much more complex issue than maybe it seems at first. But what I want to convey is that there are two sides to this issue. Also that it very well could be categorized as "Virtue Signaling" but to a certain segment of the Native population they do seem to care.
This is apparently important enough for you to make two comments arguing about it. ;-)
I haven't seen any polls that suggest a significant number of Native Americans really care. It's something that mostly white liberals care about more since it's such a trivial symbolic issue which is easy to "debate" and "virtue signal" (not a term I like but one I think applies here) about instead of doing something more meaningful to benefit people's lives.
Yeah. So my reasoning for commenting is A.) This is the point of writing something, engagement and I decided to engage in part to bolster dialogue and participation. B.) I wanted to present a different POV rather than an all out criticism of the point. I just think the alternative POV should be established with evidence. Which from reading about this issue I have concluded that there is merit to a name change.
Something I should add is that the fans of the Redskins might actually care about this name change thing more than anyone judging by the backlash to the name change.
I do find it kind of depressing that the only thing that really seems to have come out of the 2020 protests were superficial corporate gestures.
Do you think my point about "virtue signaling" on this issue is legitimate?
Yes actually.
Currently there are many more important issues regarding Native Americans.
The most pressing being that many Native Americans live on reservations with some of the worst poverty and social problems in the US. Their ancestors did not go to these reservations by choice and often times they are stuck in areas with no infrastructure or natural resources often times far from their ancestral homeland.
To me it seems that there should be a taskforce that works with Native American leaders to produce a plan to rectify this situation and the federal government should take action to improve lives.
It's not that small gestures are not important, but if small gestures are the ONLY thing happening ever, it's kind of insulting and virtue signal stuff.
Judging by the reactionary backlash from some of the general public to some of these name changes I don't know if they help people become more sympathetic to the plight of Native Americans, it might make things worse in a small way.